This is why the LS series, and many other modern engines, can make great power on top and bottom with wide LSA camshafts and why a plethora of factory cylinder heads are flowing near (or above) 300 cfm. How do the lobe separations change when you factor in turbocharging? An icon used to represent a menu that can be toggled by interacting with this icon. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. That means your engine can produce more power with a minimum amount of fuel combustion. 108 vs 112 lobe seperation. I will be running an Edelbrock Performer RPM, with a Quick Fuel 750cfm with a screw adjustable vacuum secondary; it's called the Pro-vac. O onovakind67 Registered Joined Dec 14, 2001 6,242 Posts Engine knocking generally occurs when the burning of the fuel by the engine is uneven. The center of those 2 events is the LOBE CENTERLINE (ECL). Increasing the EGR effect has a good side in that it reduces the amount of oxygen in the combustion chamber. A good amount of idle vacuum or increased idle vacuum found at 110 LSA advances the engines efficiency. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. A cams Lobe center angle equals intake centerline plus exhaust . Howards Cam Vs Comp Cam: Which Is The Best Option For You? The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. The valve covers, valvetrain, intake manifold, harmonic balancer, front cover, timing set, and cam were yanked. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. Big strokers like tighter LCA but it really depends on your combo and usage, theres great OTS cams but for a custom engine a custom cam is the way to go With identical cam lobes you won't see a bit of difference. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? After consulting with many experts, you are still in confusion between 106 and 110- lobe separation angles. Pinning the tail on the perfect cam can certainly be a difficult task. The takeaway is simple on the surface: A tighter LSA makes more low-end and peak torque at the expense of just a few top-end ponies. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. - Sheryl Crow. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. So, you can enjoy a mighty acceleration power at 110 LSA. THis is a real generalization, but the weaker your heads, the more you will like the smaller centers ( 106-108) the better the heads, and the higher the compression, the more it will like the wider centers ( 112-114)everything else falls somewhere in the middle( 108-110) Once you get close with the cam centerlines, it wont make much differance if you change it up or down by 2 degrees. If the overlap phase occurs too early, it will create an overly rich condition in the exhaust port, severely decreasing the gas mileage. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. The intake air control valve (IAC), which regulates idle speed, also has to work overtime and often attempts to "catch" the idle, but usually shoots high or low. Well, it is quite a natural event that you may not find the lope separation angle mentioned at the engine body. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Boom, you get the lobe separation angle of that engine. changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree) LSA (green lines) lost considerable torque to the other two cams. Now its not shifting into 3rd and you are here. The 402-inch LS2/LS3 hybrid stroker started out with an LS2 aluminum block. I think the compression ratio has something to do with LSA too. Things like idle vacuum, fuel economy, and tuning all factor into picking the right cam. by Hoxviii Mon May 12, 2003 7:50 pm, Post When you don't have any overlap, you can't have any wave tuning. And better gas mileage. If you look at the cam card, you will find a maximum lift column on the card.Now, all you have to do is, add up the two mentioned maximum angles and divide the summation by 2. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. In this segment, I am going to compare those two lobe separation angles based on a couple of mechanical factors. Say you have a cam ground on a 115 and the other on a 110. Well, If I am not mistaken, you must be looking for which angle has what impact on your engine or which would be the best. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. Your best bet would be to talk to one of the experts at a cam company to get a custom grind if you're that into the specs. The result sounded wonderful, but it didnt rev as enthusiastically and it made 30 less horsepower than normal, says Lawrence. whats the difference in how the car will run. 04 Minor modifications to the factory windage tray were necessary to work with the new stroker assembly. However, it is fixable. After the next three pulls, it was clear the 113 cam was way down on low-end torque. Is There a Sequence? A wider lobe center will give you more overall torque (comes in earlier and stays later). ( 2 ) Estimated Ship Date: Feb 23, 2023 (if ordered today) Drop Ship. 106 LSA: The overlapping is higher as 106 LSA is comparatively tighter LSA than 110 LSA. Widening their separation angle helps increase upper rpm power output. According to the Motortrend, LSA (Lobe Separation Angle) is a wonderful approximation of the operation of the engine because it takes into account the relative time of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) and the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) concerning each other.Above mentioned sequential activities allow LSA to be an accurate representation of the operation of the engine. 1966 Toyota Landcruiserunder construction. 106 LSA: The scale of efficient compression rises at 106 LSA. = Moderate 108-106 Deg. But, after comparing these two LSA based on a few mechanical aspects, such as maximum Torque, RPM, powerband, oil consumption, and many more, you will find the 106 LSA with better performance output. 112 will have a smoother idle, a wider power band, and will work better with fuel injection. 106 LSA: As you know, the intake and exhaust lobes centerline distance is known as lobe separation angle. It produces peak torque earliercoming on quicker and strongerbut also it falls off quicker too. You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. by mrsmythe Wed May 14, 2003 2:26 am, Post General topics - 76 LA built, CA car with m20. by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post The exhaust has an opening even and a closing event. We do not stock profiles with 109 or 114 lobe centers. How To Properly Replace Ignition CoilsContinue. This cam split the difference between the 101 and 113 down the middle, and in theory should have walked the line between the results of the last two tests in every waywhich it did. It should still make close to 600hp and 600tq in my 512" stealth headed big block. 110 LSA: On the contrary, at 110 LSA, the engine fails to reach the maximum torque, resulting in a decrease in torque rate. such as 290 @.050? 238/248 duration, 300/310 adv. by farmer Mon May 12, 2003 3:14 pm, Post Camshaft: Hydraulic Roller, Comp Cam custom grind (ADV Duration 281-287,@ .050 230-236, lift 622I & 625E w/1.6 rockers.) 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Well, I saw that Erson makes some nice hydraulic rollers with 108 LSAs, and I know that tighter LSAs have more midrange, so I thought they might be worth a try. What Are The Wastegate Stuck Open Symptoms? That is why 106 LSA consumes less oil. by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post Pretty much standard for an RV type cam. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! by bigjoe1 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:48 pm, Post All testing was performed with an Aeromotive fuel pump feeding a set of 42-lb/hr injectors. The standard bore block was then stuffed with a 4340 forged steel 4.0-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods, along with a set of flat-top, forged JE pistons. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. Leave the 108 for solid rollers turning big rpms. by ANT Thu May 15, 2003 6:44 pm, Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by phpBB Forum Software phpBB Limited. Tight lobe separations, such as 108 or shorter, will cause the peak torque to build earlier in the RPM range and peak-out in a short amount of . That was just a glimpse of the information you were looking for. As usual, Marc (aka Master) is correct. indeed, expect low vacuum with anything lower than 110-ish. Aluminum flywheel & pullies. So, this LSA is suitable for your engine and its components. (ICL + ECL) / 2 = LOBE SEPARATION ANGLE (LSA) LSA is a RESULT of the PROPER events. LSA is a result of valve timing events. Chuck Lawrence of Jon Kaase Racing Engines was asked to give a 520ci BBF a Pro Stock sound, so he went with a 108 LSA in place of a more conventional 112 LSA. As boost increases, the air will be forced through the cylinder, vs. being trapped in the cylinder. 112-110 Deg. On the surface, the camshaft's job is simpleopen and close the valvesbut beyond that topical description, it's one of the most mysterious and misunderstood engine components. http://www.mustangworks.com/cgi-bin/moi-display.cgi?220, http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en6em_camshaft_specs/lobe_seperation_angle.html. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. Consequently, decreased torque rate often leads to more energy consumption. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. As the RPM's go up this is not as critical as the higher velocity of the air/fuel moving thru keeps it from getting contaminated. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. Lobe separation angle does. 108* or narrower lobe separation angle (LSA) is "Narrow" and 114* or wider (up to 117* or 120* for stock cams) is "Wide" , with 110 to 112* being the "normal" hot-rod cam. It also depends on displacement, some guys will run a bigger cam and widen the LCA to give a better idle but in my opinion it kills power. Because the lobes are closer together on the 101 LSA cam, the intake closing point is advanced (closes earlier) and the piston has more time to build compressionexactly what the gauge showed. Usually, an old gas tank is responsible for a vehicle bogging down during acceleration. 106 LSA: So, if I talk about the powerband at 106 LSA, the powerband is narrow. Also, the wider LSA contributes to chassis stability in drag racing by avoiding the delivery of a ferocious blast of power that would break tire traction. Okay, have a sigh because you have opened the right door. You get a better idle, vacuum, and response from a 112o-114o lobe. somthing to that aspect. For any additional clarification or questions please contact our Tech Line at 714 523-0530. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gfBu8uc6k&t=1s. Kevko baffled oil pan & Milidon windage tray. But for small-block Chevys (like the LS applications in this story), the LSA is ground into the cam. by xstfudonniex Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:24 pm, Post I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " A narrower LCA will increase valve overlap and close the (intake) valve earlier, which explains the typical rougher idler and more midrange behaviour. Now that we have a basic understanding of lobe separation angle, we can put together a test to illustrate just what happens when you make changes to it. 07 Though the CNC-ported heads offered plenty of flow, it was necessary to upgrade the supplied valvesprings. In terms of horsepower, the disparity between all three cams was only 6.5 hp, with a scant 100 rpm separating the peaks. I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. The second cam would have a rougher idle, produce more torque and would rev quicker. If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? . JavaScript is disabled. However, in application, there is a lot more to consider. However, finding them might be challenging if you dont have any prior knowledge. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. This table will create a map in your head, and I bet it will make your understanding crystal clear. Around 70 percent of muscle-car performance cams fall into this range. The 290 advertised duration and 114 lobe separation would contribute to a lazy power curve. A few other major and, Read More Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When AcceleratingContinue, Your email address will not be published. 110 will be a bit punchier in the midrange and probalby make a little more peak horsepower as long as a good exhaust is used. A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. Post Let's just talk lobe sep angle. Most street cams are ground 4 degrees advanced which boosts bottom end, throttle response, vacume, mpg driveability etc. A cam's lobe separation determines where and for how long peak torque occurs in an engine's rpm range. from the intake to the exhaust and vise-versa.Thats why a performance cam will usually have a rougher idle than a stock one. See all 14 photos 13 The three power curves indicate that the wide (120-degree). Another related thought to consider when selecting a cam is inches of vacuum for your engine application when deciding upon a Lobe Center. Ultimately, it comes down to how you want the engine to run, the car's intended purpose, and what you are willing to tolerate. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. After spending 8 years in plant production engineering, Noah wanted to join Engine Addiction as a key member of all cars specific guides, reviews, repairs, suggestions, and more. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? The other thing is that you can make more power with a smaller aftermarket cam. It depends on the combination of engine size, head flow and head flow balance, as well as a big one, exhaust flow capabilities. To overcome this inherent problem in wide LSA camshafts, you simply need a higher-flowing intake port.